A Biblical Perspective, Well Spoken

I came upon this blog today and want to quote a few of her words here, as well as encourage you to visit her entire post, and the continued posting of the same subject.

I believe this Mommy has an exceptional ability to discern and communicate regarding the subject of Bible based arguments for spanking/striking/physically punishing children.  She has a much more eloquent ability to address this side of the issue than I do and I hope you’ll take a moment to review her thoughts.

Is Spanking Biblical? Part 1: Proverbs

Let me begin by saying that each and every one of us parents before the Lord. Read what I say with open ears and a grain of salt, bring it before God, study the Bible for yourself. In this post, I will discuss what my husband and I have learned through our study of the Bible. In later posts, I will discuss other reasons why my husband and I have decided never to use spanking as a tool.

Proverbs 23:1-2 reads: “When you sit down to dine with a ruler, Consider carefully what is before you, And put a knife to your throat If you are a man of great appetite.” I would ask you to ask a few questions about these verses:

1. Is this verse meant to be taken literally? Or are we supposed to gain a tidbit of inferred wisdom from reading it?
2. Is this how we as Christians are told to deal with sin in our own lives? Are we to hold a knife to our throats, literally or figuratively, when confronted with temptation?  .. . .. .. …

… Let me get a little more technical. The passages in Proverbs that Christians hold to as advocating spanking (Proverbs 13:24, Proverbs 23:13,14), are not talking about a young child, but a young man!! The Hebrews used specific words when referring to the different ages of children. I am going to quote from a book by Samuel Martin, who has a BA degree with a special focus on Middle Eastern studies, and who has worked closely with two Hebrew professors in Israel on an excavation trip and a survey trip. That is to say, he has studied Hebrew culture and language extensively.

Here, I would say that hitting a teenager isn’t any better advised than hitting a child, but the point is that if you’ve done your job guiding and building up the child from birth, as a last resort to keeping them from being stoned for their insolence as a teenager or young adult, you could try beating them with a large stick first.  Then, after their bruises heal, if they’re still hell bent on doing whatever it is that the community is against, then it’s the community’s problem. And if they end up stoned to death, I guess that’s that.

So what has been my husband’s and my conclusion? Proverbs was written in the Old Testament. That means that its writer was writing as one under the law, and we need to be careful to read Proverbs with that focus in mind. If you are going to follow the Proverbs explicitly as a believer, you had better hold a knife to your throat, or at least threaten yourself, when you are eating with a ruler! Furthermore, if you are going to follow the book of Proverbs as though it is a book of commands for believers, you had better also follow the other laws in the Old Testament. Let me quote one here for you. Deuteronomy 21:18,19;21a: “If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them, then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his hometown…Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death…”. When I read this, I wonder if that is perhaps what Solomon meant when he said that if you beat your son with a rod, you will save his soul from Sheol (or death). Perhaps he had in mind a rebellious teenage son (his sons certainly were!), and he was thinking of beating his rebellious sons to keep them from being stoned to death!!      Source

SOURCE
The Shebet is not a small instrument. A shepherd’s staff was a thick, long rod. If you were to literally beat your child with this, on the back (as this is what is literally indicated in the Proverbs), you would likely kill him/her. Recently, a little girl was killed because here parents spanked her with a small switch over and over again. Her internal organs failed, and she died. These were supposed loving, Bible-believing parents! I will post more on this story later. If a small switch can kill a child, imagine what a literal rod could do!!

Exodus 21:20 warns about the use of the rod: “And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.” This verse is speaking about an adult being smitten with a rod, not a child. And an adult smitten with a literal rod could die!

One more thing I would like to address: Proverbs is a book of Hebrew poetry. This is an important contextual fact to look at when you are interpreting those pesky “rod” verses. If you look at Proverbs as poetry, you will see that the “rod,” or the “shebet,” is a symbol of authority. When the Hebrews read the term “shebet,” they would have had in mind the leader of a tribe, a shepherd’s rod (which, incidentally, was never used to beat the sheep. Sheep are very timid creatures, and will not trust a master who raises his hand against them), a king’s sceptre, or the shaft of a spear. “Shebet” would have meant authority to them.In the New Testament, believing parents are encouraged to nurture, admonish, train, correct their children: clearly, they are to be in authority over them, so this is a New Testament principle as well.

Spanking Bare Bottom

First off, let me inform everyone that NGJ does not encourage bare bottom spanking, as far as I can tell.  In fact, their words are that the children are left clothed, and the only removal of clothing might include outdoor layers.  I might add, the removal of the outer layers is so the pain of the striking can be fully felt – there is no reprieve for these little ones.

So, with that said, I will also mention that there are a lot of other methods, doctrines, and schools of thought that do promote bare bottom spanking.

http://christianblogs.christianet.com/1116929596.htm

http://www.blurtit.com/q649420.html

http://www.christianforums.com/t2967252-8/

http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/defense_of_spanking/how_to_spank.html  (yep, this is real)

http://www.christian-parents.net/QA_letters/QA107_Why_When_How_To_Spank.htm

Stories: http://www.funadvice.com/q/were_you_spanked_and_how

http://www.nospank.net/jenn.htm

Ezzo Info: http://www.ezzo.info/Articles/tyler.htm

Ok, enough of the links.  The reason I am writing this post is because of a comment left earlier today.

Let me clarify something before I go into this thought any further.  I do not believe that all use of porn is “sin”.  I realize a lot of you will freak out right about now, but that’s ok.  I will explain myself, if you’d care to read.

I have been married for 14 years, and neither my husband nor I have an issue with porn. We don’t sneak it and we don’t use it routinely.  It doesn’t bother either of us if it is used, however, either alone (independently) or shared together.  I think the reason for this is simply that we are secure in our desire for one another and satisfaction with each other.  Porn is not something we ‘turn to’, but rather incorporate once in a while, for whatever reason strikes us. And it is not a religious thing because, well.. we’re not religious.  But even with my upbringing, in our situation, it isn’t a concern (and yes, I am the woman saying this).

That said, I will further state that women are no less sexual beings than men.  I believe women and men are equally capable of using sex for their own purposes, and that can include harming their child in effort to satisfy something within themselves.  I bring this up because of something I read a couple days ago, which I will explain in a minute.

I am in no way a sex addict, nor am I prude or afraid of sex in any way.  It is something that I thoroughly enjoy, don’t struggle with due to past events, or feel the need to hide.  It is part of my nature, an important part for a lot of reasons, and it’s something that I believe is a useful part of life.  I also believe it can be terribly distorted, become very painful and full of hate, can be used to hurt permanently, and should never be something a child is exposed or forced to experience unwillingly (or unwittingly, if the age is too young).  Though I still believe exposing a young child to a violent scene on tv is worse than a sex scene on the same tv.  But that child isn’t going to process either one properly, so care should be taken to prevent exposure.  Period.

Ok, here’s why I have stated all that – I read a story where a woman recalled her childhood spankings, in which she states that after her mother finished the spanking, on her bare bottom, she would run from the room, holding her still bare and then very red bottom.  The mother would seem pleased.

The rest of the story can be found here (searching through history to find it – will post shortly), but the thing is this, coming from someone who doesn’t seem to have any issues sexually, that line triggered a sexual response in me.  Is that response related to the child?  No… it’s the fact that a mark was left, an aspect of the body was exposed, and some emotion was released during the making of the mark (redness) on the exposed flesh.  Why does this do something in my head?  As an adult, do I enjoy sexual spanking?  Nope.  Not something I can honestly say I have ever had done to me, but if I see it done between adults does my body respond?  Yes, I suppose it does for some reason.  So, the fact that this story was about a child being spanked temporarily escaped my mind, while reading that sentence I felt something that I wonder if the mother didn’t also feel – a sense of satisfaction, of sexual tension and response.

At this point, I stopped reading the article and just sat there for a moment, freaked.  Literally, I didn’t know what to think about this involuntary response to something I consider disgusting and abusive.  And it made me think that there is more to this outcry regarding spankings being sexual, regardless of what/where/why/clothing or none.  I am beginning to think that spanking is either about asserting power, or asserting power to receive sexual tension release.  Could it be that simple?

If it is so simple, have people done this for ages for the same reason?  Honestly, in a society where sex is hush hush, what better way to gain the release the body needs (as in the natural course of the body) than to force a helpless child to give it, under the guise of Godly principles?  How much easier does it get?

WHERE (on the body), Exactly, Should I Spank My Child with the Rod?

Source

Sorry everyone for the delay in citing source.. I got ahead of myself.

Where on the body?

The Bible says, “the rod is for the back.” That would include anything that is not the front—the back from the shoulders down to the feet. When training, and not chastening or punishing, any convenient place on the body is effective. When you have told a child not to touch, and he reaches out, you can thump or swat his hand. If he is trying to climb down from his chair after being told not to, you can swat his legs. But when you are engaging the child in serious chastisement, the small of the back down to the thighs is the most effective. You can spank half as hard on the back with a light, stingy switch and be more effective than spanking harder on the bottom or thighs.

Doctors: What organs in the small of the back might be particularly vulnerable to being struck?

And, yes, we know that there are people out there who actually listen to this.  5000 members on Facebook alone.

You Better Listen

“If you do not see the wisdom in what I have said, and you reject these concepts, you are not fit to be a parent. I pity your children. They will never experience the freedom of soul and conscience that mine do.”   -Michael Pearl    Source

The rod as punishment

If you fail to gain the child’s heart through proper training and chastisement, his self-will may carry him into acts or motives that are evil. When a child has chosen the path of corruption, like anger that results in hurting someone, he has grieved his conscience and is in a psychological state of estrangement from all authority, from God, and from his higher impulses to be good. His guilt will isolate him from the social order and put him beyond the pale of reason and rebuke. It will be the jumping off point into total rebellion. You may see this occur in a child as young as three or four, but more likely in older children.

If you have trained properly, this may never happen to your child, but if it does come to this, you are not helpless. The soul of your child needs to be punished. He feels the need to suffer for his misdeeds. What I am telling you is well understood by the most reprobate of modern psychiatrists and psychologists. They call it a “guilt complex.” Children and adults in this state of mind often do harm to themselves. Their anger is turned inward because they hate the bad person they know themselves to be. Their soul is crying out for justice to be done to the self. They don’t know what is happening, and they will not voluntarily seek punishment, but their soul needs judgment. When your child is in the first throes of this debilitating condition, be kind enough to punish him. Care enough and love enough to pay the emotional sacrifice to give him ten to fifteen licks that will satisfy his need to experience payback.

If you do not see the wisdom in what I have said, and you reject these concepts, you are not fit to be a parent. I pity your children. They will never experience the freedom of soul and conscience that mine do.

“The soul of your child needs to be punished.”

“…be kind enough to punish him. Care enough and love enough to pay the emotional sacrifice to give him ten to fifteen licks that will satisfy his need to experience payback.”

After all, your child is actually asking, nay begging, you to beat them up for their own stupidity and ignorance. Why stop at abuse, hell, if the kid’s asking for it, torture them… SET THEM FREE!

I can’t handle this..

Anyone with the ability to speak with something other than disgust, as in something constructive, have something to add?  I clearly am incapable at this point… Maybe tomorrow.